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Genshin Lore / Trivia Dump 1.0

Warning: lots of words ahead! This is kind of a compilation of interesting things I’ve gathered from the descriptions of items, books, voicelines, stories and more. I haven’t included much lore from the main story, and I also haven’t focused on many theories (apart from one of my own), so I'm trying to stick to facts or “implied” possibilities that have some evidence supporting them.
If you have anything interesting that you’d like me to add to the dump, or if I'm completely wrong about something, please let me know! I plan to keep updating this as I keep getting new information. I’ve included excerpts of most of the sources I’ve used, but I’d suggest fully reading the books and stories I’ve included (cause they’re great). Also, please read the webcomic!


  • Hilichurls aren't mindless goblins. They have a whole language and culture of their own and are capable of philosophy, anger, grief and joy: (Books on Hilichurl Ballads / Cultural Customs)
  • Hilichurls are capable of using elements without visions. This could possibly imply that hilichurls are more "native" to the world than humans are, since humans require visions to actually harness the power of the elements. (However, Hlory tells us that they suddenly appeared on Teyvat a few centuries ago so they can't be native to Teyvat). Also, while humans worship the archons, hilichurls worship the elements themselves:
Interestingly, hilichurls seem to have a unique ability to manipulate the elements despite their low intelligence and primitive social structure. The ability is most notably manifested in the Shamans. Typically, humans require a Vision in order to exercise elemental control. The question of how Hilichurls are able to do so without a Vision is, therefore, one that requires further investigation and analysis.)
(Just as the inhabitants of the Seven Nations of Teyvat each have their religious beliefs, so too do the hilichurls. However, they worship not a specific figurehead with a presence in this world — such as one of The Seven — but elemental power itself in a more abstract sense. For instance, some hilichurl tribes in Mondstadt revere Anemo just as their human counterparts do, but they do not recognize the Anemo Archon Barbatos. Instead, they worship the power of Anemo itself.

  • The hilichurls of the Eclipse tribe are the most intriguing. They are known to be the most occult with the most powerful shamans, and worship the symbol of the eclipsed sun. From the official story videos and various pieces of lore, we can assume that they are closely related to the eclipse kingdom before its downfall 500 years ago.
  • Hilichurls are drawn to ancient ruins for some reason, indicating a close link to the ancient ruined civilisation. The eclipse tribe is also situated in ruins, while the other 2 tribes are not.
It would appear that the hilichurl possess no concept of either the past or future, living only in the present. They do not intentionally store up food for survival, nor do they commemorate their deceased forebears. Though crude attempts at something like calligraphy have been widely observed within their camps, closer inspection reveals these markings to be nothing more than botched imitations of what they have seen in ancient ruins, possessing no originality whatsoever. Hilichurls do seem to have an inexplicable affinity for remnants of the past, evidenced by the fact that ruins are one of their preferred locations to camp. But investigations thus far have turned up nothing which might hint at the true nature of their connection with the lost civilizations to which these ruins belong.

  • Hilichurls are controlled by Abyss mages using rituals and are forced to do their bidding. For example, they were forced to fight us near stormterror's lair even though the elemental energy is too powerful for their physical bodies to withstand for long.
  • They do not seem to be inherently evil: Ella Musk manages to have a peaceful conversation with them in Hilichurlian, and Dusky Ming (the ghost girl) makes friends with Hilichurls (story from Uncle Ghast).
  • Even MC feels bad about being "too harsh" on hilichurls:
(Traveler): Do you think that we're too harsh on the hilichurls?
Paimon: Well... sometimes we kinda seem like children who just can't resist kicking the hornet's nest...
(Traveler): I think we're doing more than just kicking it...


  • The Seelie are not human spirits, they're a different species. "Once a mighty race that guided humanity, now the most they can do is lead willing adventurers to treasure”. (loading screen tip)
  • The Seelie have Seelie Gardens, i.e. their small stone pillars, that they all want to return to. (loading screen tip)
  • Traveler mentions that she gets a certain sense of sadness from touching Seelie treasures (Traveler voicelines)
  • The Seelie used to have mighty palaces and it is possible that the Seelie were originally from Khaenriah. (read story below)
  • This entire story from A Drunkard’s Tale III is really amazing, so please read it fully to understand more about the Seelie’s past:


  • An idle animation of the Traveler shows that she can create the same constellations as Paimon. These constellation particles can also be seen emitted from other ancient structures like light actuators and ancient seals.
  • Traveler knows about nozzles and machinery but Paimon doesn't, indicating she comes from a modern world or has visited one
Paimon: Mondstadt is full of wide plains and rolling hills.
Paimon: People say that when Barbatos made this land, he used the storm to flatten the cliffs and valleys...
(Traveler): Still, it looks like he missed a few spots.
Paimon: Like Starsnatch Cliff?
(Traveler): Exactly
(Traveler): It looks like a nozzle that wasn't smoothed out in the modeling stage.
Paimon: What's a nozzle?

  • Traveler didn't originally know how to speak the Teyvat language, and learned it from Paimon. Maybe she doesn't speak much because she's not fluent in Teyvatian (voicelines)
  • Traveler is able to materialise and dematerialise her weapon, which Paimon has never seen before. Both she and Paimon share the same ability to make things appear and disappear (in Paimon's case, it's herself) (voicelines)
  • Roses represent love in Traveler's homeworld, but secrecy in Mondstadt (Noelle voicelines)
  • Traveler knows something about the Eclipse symbol of the Eclipse tribe that she doesn't want to reveal to Paimon. She suspiciously diverts the conversation when Paimon asks about it.
(Traveler): The "Eclipse tribe..." So the hilichurls have normal-sounding tribe names like these, too.
Paimon: The hilichurls of the Eclipse tribe are really mysterious.
Paimon: All the hilichurls of that tribe can draw an eclipse symbol.
Paimon: But rumor has it that only the Dada Samachurl of the Eclipse tribe knows why the Eclipse symbol is so revered within their tribe.
(Traveler): An Eclipse symbol...
Paimon: Hmm? Did you say something?
(Traveler): Ah. I was asking you what sort of soup you'd like to have tonight.
Paimon: Can't stop thinking about food, huh? Seems like you'd be more at home in the Meaty tribe than the Eclipse tribe. But anyway, Paimon wants boar soup. Thanks!
Traveler and their sibling both landed up on Teyvat 500 years ago when it was under collapse. When they tried to escape, one was trapped by the unknown god and the other was sent forward through time. This does not mean that Traveler's sibling has been alive for 500 years. The abyss order has only recently gotten a new "prince" or "princess" (depending on MC gender) which we know from the main story. This means that Traveler's sibling came through time just like Traveler did.
A boy and a girl stood amidst the tumult, under an unfamiliar sky. You were a pair of traveling twins, passing through countless worlds during your journey. Descending upon a continent named Teyvat, you hoped that you would be able to enjoy your time here.
But as you awoke among the falling stars, you saw the world in turmoil, a cataclysm raging across the land... You sought to leave this place and move on to the next world, but then an Unknown God stood before you, barring the way. This deity was spotless, floating over a world of chaos. Looking down on you.
The god took your only kin away, and you were sealed and cast into a deep slumber filled with nightmares... When you reawakened, the world was changed. The flames of war raged no longer, and nothing was left that looked familiar.

Khaenriah and Time

  • Khaenriah seems to neighbour Monstadt, or is at the very least closer to it than other nations:
Kaeya profile: "His biological father squeezed his lean shoulders, but his look stretched through Kaeya, to someplace far beyond. On the other side of the horizon, sat their distant homeland of Khaenri'ah. Kaeya would never forget that look, intertwined with both hopefulness and hatred."

  • Khaenriah appears to have been destroyed by an evil alchemist called Gold, who corrupted life into hideous monsters with some otherworldly force. (Could this be Honkai? I haven’t played HI3):
(chunk of aerosiderite: When Khaenri'ah was destroyed, a great sinner created endless monsters with alien, dark blood flowing through their veins. They rampaged across the land, destroying all in their paths. Their lives were mutations, caused by powers beyond this world. The black serpentine dragon Durin that attacked Mondstadt was such a mutation.)
(Breeze Amidst the Forest - Ballad Selection: The Eclipse Dynasty had fallen, and disaster spread across the land. The alchemist known as Gold was corrupted by his own greed and ambition, and created an army of shadowy monsters with his uncanny powers. Durin, a black serpentine dragon, rose from the sea to cast its shadow over Mondstadt...)

  • Khaenriah appears to be a place where time has gone out of control: In the Teyvat Chapter Storyline video, Dainsleif describes Khaenriah with "In the perpetual meantime of a sheltered eternity". In his bio, an unnamed prophet mentions "The confluence between the past and future" and " The future must atone for bygone mistakes, as the bond familiar falters and breaks".

  • We know that in the distant past, the eastern side of Mondstadt worshipped both wind and time:
(sacrificial sword: "On the cliff facing the eastern sea, the ancestors worshiped the masters of Time and Anemo together. The two are intimately related, as expressed in the saying, "Anemo brings stories while Time nurtures them.")

  • So if Khaenriah neighbours Mondstadt and is a land of time, and the eastern shore of Mondstadt used to worship time, what do we see in game? We can visit many mysterious places on the eastern side of the region, such as the Thousand Winds Temple (originally used to worship the Time God as well), the Eclipse Tribe (implied to have connections to ancient dynasties), the entrance to the Spiral Abyss (perhaps related to the fall of Khaenriah) and the unmarked Time Island.
  • The unmarked Time Island is particularly interesting, since it’s literally off the shore where Traveler and Paimon suddenly pop up in Teyvat. You can read my theory here: (https://www.reddit.com/Genshin_Impact/comments/jfhrwv/theory_paimon_is_actually)

Kaeya and Diluc

  • When his favourite wine goes out of season, Kaeya actually does his job and drastically reduces the crime rate in Mondstadt:
Kaeya Story 3: “The flourishing winery business in Mondstadt has been a great source of prosperity in the region over the years. This prosperity often entices greedy bandits and monsters to the area. They are a motley bunch who hide in the shadows, and their backgrounds, motives, and allegiances are varied and complex.
Kaeya battles against this threat to Mondstadt not only with his sword, but also with his smarts and his wit
A young knight once dedicated years of his life to studying threats in and around Mondstadt, and reached an astounding conclusion: When Death After Noon is out of season due to lack of supply, the number of reported incidents inside and outside the city show a drastic decrease, and this remains the case until Death After Noon returns to the market...
The young knight showed his findings to Cavalry Captain Kaeya in hopes of getting some advice from him.
"Interesting. I'll look into it." Kaeya answered, with a wry smirk on his face.”

  • Kaeya was intended to be a pawn of Khaenriah, planted as a double agent . He used to be torn between 2 worlds, but then finally realised his duty to Mondstadt when his adopted father died. (below)

  • Kaeya used to be a staunch supporter of Diluc, preferring to help his brother rise to success rather than compete with him. However, when Diluc turned 18, he was attacked by the Fatui and his father was forced to sacrifice himself to save his son. To end his suffering, Diluc had to kill his own father. (Story 5 + Webcomic)
(Kaeya Story 5: “Many denizens still remember the two most eye-catching young gentlemen in all of Mondstadt. One of them was the impeccable Diluc, an elegant swordsman who always wore a friendly smile on his confident face. The other gentleman was the eccentric Kaeya. He was Diluc's friend, support, and sounding board, ensuring he got through every challenge he faced smoothly. They were almost like twins, knowing each other's thoughts and intentions without a word, protecting Mondstadt in both light and dark.
...Until that fateful day, now ingrained deep in Kaeya's memory, when the convoy Diluc was escorting was attacked by a huge monster. It was the first and only time Kaeya failed in his duty. By the time Kaeya finally reached Diluc, it was all already over. The power their father had used to successfully fend off the monster also backfired and took their father's life with it.”)

  • Kaeya and Diluc had a "hard-fought battle", upon which Kaeya awoke his vision for the first time in his life; they have been at odds ever since. It would appear that Kaeya in-game has been nerfed a lot compared to what the lore would suggest:
Kaeya Vision Story: There was a side to Kaeya that he kept hidden from the world: In truth, he was an agent of Khaenri’ah, placed in Mondstadt to serve their interests. His father had abandoned him in this strange and unknown land to fulfill his mission, and it was Master Crepus and the city of Mondstadt that had welcomed him with open arms when they found him.
If Khaenri'ah and Mondstadt went to war, which side should he support? To whom should he offer his assistance: his birth father, who had ruthlessly abandoned him? Or his adoptive father, who loved him and raised him?
For the longest time, Kaeya had agonized over these impossible questions, caught between the opposing demands of loyalty and duty, faced with an impossible choice between truth and happiness.
But now, Crepus' death upset this delicate balance. He felt liberated, but also ashamed of how selfishly he was responding.
As an adopted son, he should have saved Crepus, but he had arrived moments too late. As a brother, he should have shared in Diluc's grief, and yet as their father lay dying on the ground he had hung back behind his brother, that ancient plot running through his mind.
Consumed by guilt, Kaeya knocked on Diluc's door. As the rain poured down, the shroud of secrecy was washed away, all lies were revealed. Kaeya had finally come clean.
He had anticipated Diluc's anger.
The brothers drew their blades, this time pointing them at each other. Kaeya felt that this was his punishment for a lifetime of lies.
But as the two crossed blades, Kaeya was overcome by the sensation of great elemental power surging through him. For years, he had stayed out of the way in his brother's shadow. But now, for the first time ever, he was facing his brother as his true self.
Bitterly cold and brittle elemental energy burst forth from the tip of his sword to meet Diluc's searing flames head-on. The clash of crimson fire and azure ice created a sudden swirl of wind that stunned them both. This was the grim moment at which Kaeya's Vision appeared.
Since that day, Kaeya and Diluc have gone their separate ways.
But he never discusses it, just as he never discusses the origin of his Vision
Though it is a reminder of the hard-fought battle, and the prize that he earned in exchange for revealing the unadulterated truth, Kaeya sees it as a stern reminder that he must live the rest of his life under the heavy burden of lies.

Gods and Power

  • Gods aren't invincible or all-powerful; they come and go with the times. Many have been killed or defeated, and some have moved to chaotic wastelands to rule them. We are told of a salt god, a dust god, a time god (Paimon???) and of other minor gods in pieces of lore. Similarly, Teyvat is just a continent, and many places of chaos and darkness exist beyond it.
(Bit of Aerosiderite: The coastal nations of Teyvat refer to the region beyond the protection of The Seven as the Dark Sea. It is said many defeated gods refused to live under the new order of The Seven, so they fled to remote islands and became evil gods. However, their powers came from the same source as Rex Lapis, separate from this all-devouring darkness.)
(Piece of Aerosiderite: Rumors of sea monsters are commonplace in Liyue, since the other-shore is an unknown region that lies outside of Teyvat. Without the protection of The Seven, all that lies beyond is unknown chaos. Only power beyond the order of Teyvat is able to stain the power of Rex Lapis black.)

  • Decarabian was the lord of the Mondstadt region before Barbatos rose to power. He created the city now known as stormterror's lair, and forced his subjects to play along with his dream of eternal power.
(Decarabian Fragments: The place now known as Stormterror's Lair was once the capital city of Decarabian, the God of Storms. Since this dream of prosperity was created entirely by his divine might, the broken pieces left behind by the shattering of that dream still possess great power. Decarabian, the God of Storms, was content with the capital city he had raised, and accepted the worship of the people from atop his tower. But he knew not that the people did not bow to him out of respect or adoration. The people did not bow to Decarabian out of respect or adoration, but because the harsh winds had laid them low. This was the shattered dream and ambition of the Anemo Archon before the rise of Barbatos. He tried so hard to make his dream come true, and so the fragments of that dream are still mighty. Andrius once declared war upon Decarabian, but failed to even scratch the capital of the Lord of the Tower. If it were not for the song of freedom that shattered the city in an instant, Decarabian's dream would have gone on forever.)
(Teyvat Travel Guide, Mondstadt: Brightcrown Canyon leads to this huge ruin of an ancient city which was built by the cruel King of Gales, Decarabian. The city was built in a ring-shape. It seems that every resident of the city had been arranged their own spot between the inner and outer rings. Right in the center of the city was the tall tower where the King of Gales resided. The ruins of the domain of this cruel king, who once tried to control his people’s lives, are now utterly deserted.)

  • Not all of our current gods may be noble, and not all of the dead / defeated gods were evil:
(Diary of Roald the Adventurer: Sal Terrae: From the scale of this ruin, I suspect it is the temple that provided safe refuge for civilians during the Archon War several millennia ago. I’ve heard that the Goddess of Salt built such a place. Liyue folklore holds that she was the gentlest of the gods. In the brutality and chaos of wartime, human beings were puny and disposable. But the Salt Goddess refused to join the other gods in their senseless battle for dominance, instead choosing to give shelter to those dispossessed by the war. She brought them here to build a new settlement. She showed them kindness and comfort. And even as global upheaval ushered in the end of an epoch, she worked tirelessly to bring about a return of peace between the Archons. The gentlest of the Archons fell not in battle at the hands of the other Archons. She fell at the hand of her own people, the people she had loved so dearly.)
(Diary of Roald the Adventurer: Guyun Stone Forest: I had the most awful night's sleep last night. I dreamt I was somewhere pitch-black and damp. Suddenly, I was a sea monster, and my impaled body was being driven into the ocean floor by the Geo Archon's polearm. I writhed around and clutched at the giant polearm made of rock, trying desperately to free myself, but it was wedged firmly in place. Each movement I made filled me with agony, and with rage...)

  • (Food for thought) Jiu, a child near Mount Hulao, proclaims Rex Lapis is an usurper, and that the resurrection of an ancient being (the chi?) is coming soon.

  • There is evidence to suggest that the elements may be more important than the gods in terms of natural hierarchy. We know that hilichurls worship the elements themselves and do not appear to draw power from the gods. We also know of elemental leylines of the world, hidden deep within the earth. They create elemental ecosystems of creatures and "organs" to sustain balance, such as Regisvines (and, to a smaller extent, whopperflowers, slimes, etc):
Cryo Regisvine: a monster formed from a vine that was imbued with the essence of biting frost within the Ley Lines. Some studies hold that plants are like the world's organs, harmonizing the turbulent elemental energies of the Ley Lines. Concrete examples of this phenomena are Mist Flowers, Whopperflowers, and the like, which brim over with elemental energy.
Pyro Regisvine: A giant vine that has absorbed the ancient flame that rages within the Ley Lines. It is restless, as if filled with an endless fury. Poets, bards, and even some academics believe that elements also contain emotions and hope. If this is true, then one can only wonder what emotions cause the Pyro Regisvine to burn eternally, writhing like one longing to be free of the confines of the earth...
Ley Line Sprout: It is said that there was a great tree whose roots once spread out to every corner of the world, and this branch is said to be part of it. It is almost if it was never broken off and taken far away, for its vitality is such that it still sprouts new leaves even now.


  • Lisa taught Razor how to use his Electro powers:
(When I taught Razor how to utilize Elemental Energy, I never expected him to master the technique so quickly. Come to think of it, you're talented too. Maybe I could teach you a few tricks...)
(Razor Story: "Master, what is... 'friends'?" Razor once asked of his new mentor, working at the limits of his vocabulary. His purple-clothed mentor seemed to know it all, from how to make hash browns from potatoes in the ground, to the name of the brightest star in the summer night sky. However, Lisa simply smiled and yawned without answering him. Razor thought about it when the wind blew, when the rain fell — even when Wolfhook berries got stuck in his fur. He just couldn't figure it out.)
  • Lisa used to be much more powerful than she appears to be ingame, but she’s lazy and doesn’t feel like putting in the effort now:
(Hi darling, are you going to be Lisa's little helper? What? Me, a grand mage? That was a long time ago, I'm just a humble librarian now. \chuckles*)*
(Ascension 4: \chuckles* If I were to recover my full power, who knows what kind of things just might happen?)*
  • Lisa and Jean appear to be very close, judging by these voicelines:
(\yawns* Good morning, Jean... Oh it's you! Sorry, dear.”)*
(When Lisa is around, I always have peace of mind.)


  • Alice is Klee’s mother and the author of the Teyvat travel guide. She is a cruel sociopath, and has mentioned torturing and killing hilichurls on multiple occasions:
(The three hilichurl tribes located in this valley are all densely populated. What if we built a huge spinning ball-shaped cell in the center of the valley and threw all of the hilichurls into it? That way we might be able to generate enough energy to power all the mills in Mondstadt for at least five years. If we took it one step further by grinding the hilichurls that are too old or too weak into food and feeding them to the strong ones, we might just build ourselves a perpetual motion machine that can support a huge factory like in Snezhnaya!)
(At the center there is a huge oak tree. It is said that Vennessa ascended there. I searched around the tree for a long time but did not find any launching device. I grabbed some hilichurls nearby to put my theory to the test. Sadly, the longest flying distance was from here to the hunters’ huts around Springvale. How disappointing.)
(This valley I found at the northeast coast of Cider Lake is still guarded by ancient mechanisms, but the soldiers responsible for holding the pass for the King of Gales were nowhere to be found now. All the winds of time had left behind were the unintelligent hilichurls and silent mechanical guards. My attempt to control Ruin Guards with hilichurls failed as well. The guard split into pieces, and as for the fate of the hilichurl strapped onto it… I will spare you the gory details.)


  • The 3 hypostases we know have their names based off the Hebrew alphabet (Beth, Aleph, and Gimel). Also, a hypostasis in philosophy is defined as "the underlying state or underlying substance and is the fundamental reality that supports all else.". Perhaps this would indicate that the hypostases are kind of like representations of the underlying elemental powers that govern the universe?

  • The Oceanid's name, Rhodeia, is derived from Greek mythology: Rhodeia is the daughter of Oceanus, the Titan of the sea. The lore of the Oceanid appears to coincide with that of its real-life counterpart:
(Oceanid description: "A lifeform created from condensed Hydro elements of incredible purity...it is also said by some that Oceanids were once sea creatures from a home far away who carried the fragments of a long-dead god to the many corners of this world. Perhaps they did this so that the love their god held for this world could be spread through the water to all the land...")

  • The Oceanid's voicelines disappear really quickly, so it may be hard for people to focus on what she's actually saying. However, these and the Oceanid's description appear to suggest that it is a noble being that is a defender of pure waters and the people of its home (in this case, the people of the Qingce village). You can decide for yourself whether we're the good guys or bad guys in our battle with the Oceanid:
(When the fight starts: "So, murderers from our homeland have come on a futile journey to harass the people of the Qingce waters...very well then. But be warned, her power shall crush any miscreant that would dare pollute these waters. With no place to flow, even the purest of water will begin to envy the forms of living being who can roam about freely. it is this water that will be used to drown you and the pollution you bring.)
(Upon defeat: "We but only seek tranquil waters. Why should we be denied such a thing? However, as long as lakes and streams still remain, then rain shall continue to fall from the skies and water will never truly disappear...")

Thank you for reading everything I’ve dumped so far! I haven’t covered too much of Liyue, so I’ll be sure to add more of that soon. I’ll also gladly include anything I’ve missed out on, if you have something new for me to add!
submitted by DeathOnion to Genshin_Impact


Bob Quinn has been a disaster of a General Manager for the Detroit Lions: a year-by-year breakdown of how Bob Quinn has ruined this team

People that have been on this sub for awhile probably know me as the guy who used to post memes nonstop. Due to a variety of real-life factors (law school) and on-field factors (the absolute embarrassment of a team that Detroit fields on a weekly basis), my enthusiasm for the memes has waned – but I still watch, read about, and otherwise follow the Lions religiously. If any of you guys remember, I have been HIGHLY critical of Bob Quinn during his tenure as general manager – this has not always been a popular opinion but, as I have now turned off the television after watching Dalvin Cook run untouched for a 70-yard TD against ten men on the field, I’ve decided enough is enough. Most people want Patricia gone, and rightfully so, but I’ve seen a number of comments talking about “not minding” Bob Quinn and saying that he’s done an “okay job” - so I’ve decided to analyze Bob Quinn’s draft picks, major FA signings, and general philosophy in one single post. My ultimate goal is to show you that Bob Quinn has been an unmitigated disaster for this team – a man whose tenure has been so horrific that not only have we performed worse in every successive season he’s been the GM, but we’re also left ill-prepared for the (hopefully) post Bob Quinn era. Let’s go year by year.
Major FA Signings
Marvin Jones – brought in after the unexpected retirement of Calvin Johnson, Marv arrived and made an immediate impact. This was a very good signing that has paid dividends for almost 5 years now – in my opinion, it’s the best of the BQ era. It was also the only notable signing in 2016. (Grade: A)
The Draft
Taylor Decker – Decker has had an up and down career up until this point. He’s had some injuries and inconsistent play but, for the most part, has been really good. He was recently signed to a big extension and I’m happy to have him around long term. (Grade: A-)
A’Shawn Robinson – His performance ranged from pretty good to mediocre at best during his time in Detroit. Did not get a second contract with the Lions. (Grade: B-)
Graham Glasgow – in my opinion, one of the best picks BQ has made. The hometown kid who started day 1 and was a solid guard option during his tenure here. The pick itself was really good, and I’m grading ONLY the pick and not what ended up happening with him afterwards which we’ll discuss later on. (Grade: B+)
Miles Killebrew – still contributes on special teams, which is nice, and has returned medium-level value in that department. Had one pick 6 but not much of a defensive presence otherwise. (Grade: B)
Joe Dahl – an average at best player whose most valuable trait has been his versatility. Really good value in round 5. (Grade: B+)
The rest – Anthony Zettel was a decent player for a while and we took a long snapper (LOL) who didn’t make the team. BQ also took Jake Rudock out of Michigan, stating that “it’s good business to draft a young QB every year or every other year”. This philosophy, that Bob Quinn has since abandoned in favor of signing washed up vets to bloated deals, is one I totally agree with. Shame he didn’t stick to it.
Overall this was actually a good draft! Lots of great value and contributors that are still on the team today. The Marvin Jones signing + this strong draft would combine with a brilliant year from Matthew Stafford to get us to wildcard weekend. We lost to Seattle, of course, but look at the stellar draft and great FA signings we made! We’re on the right track, right? Now we just need to upgrade the backfield, because Ameer Abdullah and Theo Riddick are now on years 3 and 4 of YPCs under 2.5, and boost the offensive line. Maybe some pass rush help? Next year is going to be great. I’d give this draft an A-.
Major FA Signings
Rick Wagner – with Rielly Reiff and Larry Warford out the door, BQ decided to invest heavy resources in the offensive line. He signed Rick Wagner to the biggest RT contract in the league to kick off his rebuild of this group. Wagner, at his absolute best in Detroit, was average. At his worst, which was much more frequent, his bloated contract hurt the Lions badly. (Grade: D)
TJ Lang – I love TJ as a person, as all lions fans do, but there’s a reason Green Bay let him walk. His pro bowl appearance as a Lion was earned on name-recognition alone and does not reflect his play. Injured for most of his tenure, this was another disaster signing. (Grade: D)
This class cost us tons of cap space over multiple years and was a masterclass on how not to build an offensive line. I’d give this FA Period a D-.
Trigger Warning – The Draft
Jarrad Davis – to say that Davis has been anything short of an utter failure is disingenuous. With T.J. Watt and Dalvin Cook, eventual all pros at massive positions of need, on the board – Bob Quinn takes the linebacker out of Florida. The Lions did not pick up Jarrad Davis’ 5th year option this year. The fact that we’re struggling to find playing time for him 4 years into his career, when we have the worst linebacking corps in the NFL, should tell you all you need to know. (Grade: F)
Teez Tabor - (Grade: A+)
Kenny Golladay – the absolute, hands down, best pick Bob Quinn has ever made. Just an absolute star in every sense of the word – Golladay will likely go down as one of the 3-4 most talented receivers the Lions have ever had. Recently had a conversation with my dad, a life long lions fan, who thinks Golladay can be just as good as Herman Moore was. Just a beast whose only concerns are his age and his hamstrings. (Grade: A+)
Jalen Reeves Maybin – Depth (Grade: C+)
Michael Roberts – while it might not have seemed like it at first glance, this pick is a microcosm of what the Bob Quinn era has been defined by: a mistake that compounds to put us in a hole later on. I wanted George Kittle, you wanted George Kittle, this whole sub was talking about wanting George Kittle … the entire world knew that the high upside tight end out of Iowa would probably be a good pick for a team with needs at the position – so what does Bob Quinn do? The smartest man in the room takes Michael Roberts out of Toledo. He knew we needed a tight end. He picked the wrong one. Michael Roberts is no longer in the NFL while George Kittle just led the 49ers to a super bowl appearance. (Grade: F)
Jamal Agnew – an electric returner and not much else. Cool that he got an all pro … hey, are we going to pick a running back soon? (Grade: B+)
The rest – Brad Kayaa lasted one preseason, it would also be the last time Bob Quinn picks a QB. Pat O’Connor looks like Aquaman.
This draft alone should be a fireable offense. Jarrad Davis over Watt and Cook set this franchise back YEARS. Teez Tabor, who Bob Quinn proudly stated he had watched more film on than any other prospect in his career, was not an NFL-caliber player. No return on a second-round pick is inexcusable.
Michael Roberts might only have been a 4th round pick, but he was the single worst decision Bob Quinn has ever made. Yes, Roberts is worse than Tabor, Wagner, Davis, Lang, Vaitai, James, etc. Bob Quinn looked at Michael Roberts and decided he was a better player than George Kittle. He KNEW we needed a tight end and his evaluation led him to pick Roberts. His failure to secure the future all pro would not only hurt us because we DIDN’T get Kittle, but it forced a massive OVERCORRECTION later on with a certain 8th overall pick.
Speaking of overcorrections, how about the eventual scramble to find a franchise RB after failing to take one here?
Here’s a list of the RBs drafted in the Lions’ range, so excluding CMC and Fournette, that Bob Quinn passed on: Dalvin Cook, Joe Mixon, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, James Conner, Tarik Cohen, Wayne Gallman, Marlon Mack, Aaron Jones, Chris Carson.
Every single one of these running backs, every single one, would likely still be our primary back today. With the exception of Wayne Gallman, who STILL would have been better than Abdullah, ALL of these RBs are either superstars, stars, or have flirted with star status. This failure to take even ONE of these running backs, the arrogance to stick with Abdullah/Riddick while throwing away picks on Tabor, Roberts, Reeves-Maybin, etc, is incompetence to such a severe degree that that I’m left to ponder Bob Quinn’s mental health. This is so inexcusable, so absolutely mind-boggling, that we’re STILL feeling the effects of this choice in late 2020. Let’s say we take Kamara instead of Tabor or Cook over Davis – what does the Kerryon Johnson pick get replaced with? D’Andre Swift? Do we get actual CONTRIBUTERS in the second rounds of these drafts rather than desperately try to patch up the haunting mistakes of 2017?
With Kenny Golladay, and to an indescribably lesser extent Jamal Agnew, the only bright spots here – this draft is absolute nightmare fuel. I would give it a D- overall.
The Lions would go 9-7 again but fail to make the playoffs, performing worse than the year prior, and parted ways with Jim Caldwell. Was firing Caldwell the right choice? Yes. He was not a good coach, and we often won in SPITE of his poor game management rather than because of it. 9-7 was NOT good enough on a consistent basis. Did we replace him with the right guy? No, obviously not – but that’s a discussion for another day.
Major FA Signings
Christian Jones – the quintessential Quinntricia linebacker. Big, slow, overpaid, and not good at anything. Still a starter for us for some reason. (Grade: D)
Devon Kennard – had flashes of good play but overall made no big difference for us in the long run. (Grade: B-)
Kenny Wiggins – garbage, not even useful as depth. (Grade: C-)
LeGarrette Blount – fat. (Grade: D)
This class is pathetically weak and has made no positive impact on the team - Grade D.
The Draft
Frank Ragnow - the second-best pick Bob Quinn has ever made. A pro-bowl caliber C in the late first round is terrific value. He’ll hopefully be a Lion for a very long time. (Grade: A+)
Kerryon Johnson – we all love Kerryon, but this was a disaster of a pick. We traded UP to pick an injury prone, decent running back in a spot where good organizations take FRANCHISE level running backs. If this pick had worked out, D’Andre Swift wouldn’t be on this team right now. Terrible management of valuable assets here. (Grade: D)
Tracy Walker – was tremendous as a rookie and very good as a sophomore but has since, unfortunately, slowly regressed. Good value at this spot but still not the star we like to pretend he is. (Grade: B+)
Da’Shawn Hand – EXTREMELY talented player but tough to evaluate because he’s literally always injured. This grade could be a D if he washes out due to injuries and an A if he gets healthy consistently, but the jury is still out as of now. (Grade: N/A)
Tyrell Crosby – Good value in the 5th (Grade: B+)
Nick Bawden – never really played, was always hurt (Grade: D)
This was overall an average at best draft – a stud at the top and contributors later are offset by a big miss after a round 2 trade up. The fact that THIS is the return from arguably BQ’s best class, which I would give a B- overall, is just plainly and simply not good enough. Bob Quinn also traded a 6th for Greg Robinson (LOL).
Year 1 with Patricia was a disaster after finishing 6-10, but fans were assured that Quinntricia just needed to execute “their vision” and things would turn around. Let’s see what the magnificent Robert Quinn has in store for us now.
Major FA Signings
Trey Flowers – Trey is, in my opinion, a dominant player surrounded by trash in a putrid scheme. I genuinely feel bad watching him generate pressure and seal the edge every week only to be let down by the maggots around him. You’d like to see more sacks out of a player being paid like a top pass rusher, but he’s more of an all-around defender than a pure burner off the edge. Good signing as he’s still young and is a foundational piece. (Grade: A-)
Danny Amendola – just no longer a reliable option. Frequent drops and a lack of burst means that he’s not the player he once was, but he’s a washed-up former patriot so it’s no surprise he wound up here. (Grade: C)
Justin Coleman – was absolutely transcendent, like I’m talking all-pro level, in the first half of 2019. Has since regressed to average/below average level of play. As the highest paid slot corner in the NFL, this is terrible return on investment if his play doesn’t improve. (Grade: C+)
Oday Aboushi – fat. (Grade: D)
Jesse James - words cannot begin to describe the stupidity of signing a backup-level tight end to a big deal only for him to fail miserably as blocker while racking up less than 20 catches in his career here. Just a miserable, miserable, miserable signing. (Grade: F)
CJ Anderson – fat. (Grade: D)
Aside from Flowers, this class was another disaster. Bob Quinn loves to hoard cap space so that he can waste it later on bums like these. Overall grade C. Let’s see if he’ll address our massive needs (coverage LB, WR2 of the future, pass rush or overall D Line help) in the draft.
The Draft
T.J. Hockenson – this one is tough. You probably can’t find a Lions fan that doesn’t like Hock, or at least can’t acknowledge that he’s playing like a top 5 tight end this year and is really really really good, but this is still a challenging pick to justify. In order for a TE at 8th overall to be worth it, he needs to be the best tight end in the NFL, or close to it, very quickly. Brian Burns or Devin Bush would likely have made a bigger impact on this team than T.J. has thus far so, while I remain hopeful, this has yet to prove itself to be a good selection. (Grade: C+ / B-)
Jahlani Tavai – I’ll never forget sitting in my basement watching day 2 of the 2019 draft with my dad and my friends. As the Lions’ pick approached, I was SCREAMING for DK Metcalf. There are concerns about his route running, but Marv and Danny won’t be here much longer and DK could be a great compliment to Golladay if he could channel his physical gifts into consistent play on the field. His selection here would have really solved our impending WR problem – so naturally we choose the Second Team All-Mountain West legend instead: Jahlani Tavai. Every time I see DK dominate on Sunday Night Football after watching Tavai flounder around the field the whole afternoon earlier that day, I remember my dad walking away from the TV on draft night muttering “Hawaii … Hawaii …” to himself in disbelief. (Grade: F)
Will Harris – absolutely useless safety out of Boston College. Bob Quinn traded Quandre Diggs because he thought this guy would take over that role. Every time I see #25 he’s either 4 steps behind his man or missing a tackle. (Grade: F).
Austin Bryant – Blocked a punt once (Grade: C-)
Amani Oruwariye – easily the best pick of this draft, as I would have been happy with him in the second, and he’s performed admirably thus far. The only disturbing part of this pick is that, in his post draft presser, Bob Quinn said they were having “internal discussions” about taking him as early as round 4 but decided to wait on it. That’s right, we picked AUSTIN BRYANT over Amani who could have easily been scooped up before we picked again in the 5th. If this gamble hadn’t have paid off, this class would be 2017 levels of bad. (Grade: A, despite Bob’s best efforts to exercise his shit judgement again)
Travis Fulgham – is a star for the Eagles now, I want to die. (Grade: A for Philadelphia, F for Detroit)
Ty Johnson – cool hair (Grade: C+)
Isaac Nauta – another tight end, dope (Grade: C+)
The best player in this class relative to where they were taken is Oruwariye, thereby continuing the trend of Bob Quinn setting this team back by whiffing hard in the early rounds. Overall grade C-.
This was a terrific season for Detroit Lions fans. Darius Slay was dealt and the great “vision” of Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia culminated in an impressive three win campaign. Very fun, thank you Bob!
Major FA Signings *I will be grading these “so far” as the season isn’t over
Hal Vaitai – so we let Glasgow walk because, apparently, he was asking for more than Bob Quinn was willing to pay for a homegrown foundational guard. Was letting Glasgow walk a decent move? I don’t know, he’s been alright for Denver but maybe not quite as good as what he’s been paid. It was a prudent, cap saving decision … that was immediately invalidated by throwing FIFTY MILLION over FIVE YEARS at this absolute dumpster of a tackle. I cannot believe how much money we’re paying to the equivalent of a real life 65 overall. (Grade so far: F)
Duron Harmon – solid but old (Grade so far: B)
Jamie Collins – the best linebacker we’ve had in the Bob Quinn era and he’s just “pretty good”. Thank you, Bob! (Grade so far: B)
Danny Shelton – fat. (Grade so far: C+)
Nick Williams – depth (Grade so far: C+)
Chase Daniel – do you know why I hated this signing so much? Because Bob Quinn, in his own words, said that drafting a developmental QB once every year or two is good business. He was absolutely right. If Stafford goes down, the season is 99.99% over anyways, so why not be able to throw out a 22-year-old to see what you’ve got? David Blough amounted to nothing, but that bomb to KG on thanksgiving is one of my favorite Lions memories ever. I can’t for the life of me understand giving a decent contract to a washed-up vet when you could give your fanbase a sliver of hope that they may have stumbled onto a miracle by keeping a young QB on the roster. If you’re going to make the argument that you need a vet in the QB room to help Stafford, you can certainly get one cheaper than this. (Grade so far: F)
Desmond Trufant – has barely played, has been putrid when he has. Sick Darius Slay replacement, Bob. (Grade so far: D)
Jayron Kearse – actually fun to watch, better than Harris (Grade so far: B+)
Reggie Ragland – a below average player who, in my opinion, is the second-best LB on the roster. What an indictment of the defense Bob has built. (Grade so far: B-)
Adrian Peterson – was nice to see some humanity on Bob Quinn’s part here. He didn’t have to go out and sign Darrell Bevell’s husband, especially when the Washington Football team decided to cut him because they’d rather roll with their stud rookie (imagine that), but he did. Really love to see this move from Bob. It has paid dividends this year big time – especially on 4th and 1 situations. (Grade so far: God tier)
The Draft
Jeff Okudah – Bob Quinn coming out and saying there was no way we were taking a QB really hurt this team on draft night. In a make-or-break year for Quinntricia, we all knew they weren’t going to draft for the future and take Tua or Herbert … but would it have hurt to put a smokescreen out there and help yourself to get a trade down? Okudah has had ups and downs this year, mostly downs if we’re being honest, and so far is not playing anywhere close to third overall pick value. There’s a reason corners don’t go this high and, unless Jeff rises to top 3 at his position, this was a bad pick. (Grade so far: not looking great, but I’m hopeful).
D’Andre Swift – this was the first time, I am not kidding you, that the Lions picked a player I wanted at a spot I wanted them in the draft during the BQ era. Swift is explosive, agile, elusive, and is a mismatch for linebackers wherever he lines up. I don’t care about the drop against the bears because 1) we should not have been in that position in the first place and 2) he’s since shown that he can catch out of the backfield and be highly effective doing so. I’ve watched Kamara and CMC drop passes too … D’Andre’s just came at a horrible time. The problem with this pick, though, is his role so far. When you pick a running back at the top of the second round, the expectation should be that they’re franchise level at their position. Drafting D’Andre at this spot is only justified if he becomes a star featured back – anything else and it’s another horrible waste of a premium pick. (Grade so far: A- for talent, D- for how he’s being used)
Julian Okwara – has not contributed. Even when healthy has been scratched. (Grade so far: not looking great but hopefully can turn it around)
Jonah Jackson – stud. 10-year mainstay on the offensive line. Terrific value (Grade so far: A)
The rest – John Penisini was a good pick, everyone else is meh. Hopefully Cephus turns into something but the fact that he hasn’t done much in a decimated receiving corps is alarming. Overall grade so far would be a B-, but if Okudah doesn’t improve dramatically, this is another dud draft with only Swift (hopefully) and Jackson keeping it afloat.
If I had to pick one main issue with Bob Quinn’s tenure, it’s that this team is NOT better than the one he inherited. The only position groups you could say tops any of Mayhew’s teams would be the Tight Ends and Running Backs while everything else is either a wash or a downgrade. Stafford has regressed, the receiving corps is razor thin and could be nonexistent next year if Golladay walks, the D line is absolutely pathetic outside of Flowers, the linebacking corps is easily the worst in the NFL, the secondary is average at best, the offensive line has had infinite resources poured into it and is still only performing in MAYBE top 15 range.
In the draft, Quinn has hit on a few early picks (Decker, Ragnow) but has whiffed on even more that have badly hurt this team (Davis, Tabor, Tavai, Harris, Johnson). He’s uncovered some definite gems later on (Golladay, Oruwariye), but has also had disastrous picks with ripple-effect consequences (Michael Roberts) that would lead to questionable decisions down the line (Hockenson). His stubbornness in sticking with Ameer Abdullah led to, in my opinion, the worst offense in his tenure (not picking a single RB in 2017) and lead to massive overcorrection later whereby he used premium assets to try to rectify his mistakes (Kerryon, Swift). His lack of ability to identify and obtain talented linebackers in favor of awful ones (Davis, Tavai, JRM) and his complete neglect of the defensive line (only notable picks being Robinson, Okwara, and Bryant) have combined to give us the worst front 7 in the entire NFL. Further negligence of the WR corps (only notable picks being Golladay, Fulgham, and Cephus) has put us in a bad situation there too moving forward.
Overall, Quinn has proven to be a poor drafter at best. A few dazzling selections in the later rounds do not compensate for the misses early, and a severe lack of star power (Quinn has yet to draft a pro-bowler who wasn’t an injury alternate even though he’s had five drafts) is actually shocking – ZERO standard pro bowlers in five drafts is actually HARD to do. The incompetence is somewhat impressive. When you look at teams like the Colts, Ravens, Chiefs, Steelers, or Seahawks, who have consistently hit on draft picks by focusing on bringing in high-level athletes with speed and playmaking ability, you’ll notice that the players their GMs choose contrast with what Bob Quinn usually chooses: below-average athletes who are big and slow who project to have a high floor.
In free agency, Quinn has proven to be an absolute disaster. His best signing (Marvin Jones) was FIVE years ago, and his second-best signing (Trey Flowers) is hamstrung by the bad pieces Bob has put around him (Shelton, Williams, Jones). His over-reliance on former patriots on defense (Coleman, Collins, Harmon) has led to a lack of identity and upside for the unit as a whole, and his terrible management of the offensive line (Vaitai, Wagner, Lang) is a fireable offense in itself. His propensity to hand out bloated contracts to backup-level players (James, Vaitai) will present a problem for the team’s cap situation moving forward, and his insistence on signing over-the-hill running backs (Anderson, Blount, Peterson) has continued to impede the development of their younger counterparts (Swift, Kerryon).
After five years of Bob Quinn, the Lions are left with:
-An aging QB that has regressed
-A front 7 that is arguably the worst in the NFL
-A middling offensive line
-A thin secondary
-A barren receiver room
-A bad coaching staff
-A cap situation that needs to be figured out
-A mediocre record
After analyzing every major move that Bob has made, it is not only abundantly clear that he should be fired, but he may have been the single worst GM in the NFL during this five-year span. A poor drafter and an even worse free agent evaluator, Bob Quinn has put on a masterclass of how NOT to build a roster here in Detroit.
We’re tired of it.
submitted by ChefCurrySauce to detroitlions